The Ego And The Crisis

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  • wildcat

    14 months ago

    
    
    

    Conscious Awareness if so is +1, first priority..

    Conscious Awareness if so is +1, first priority..

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  • . .•∞º˙

    14 months ago

    
    
    

    And I thought it was all just lactose intolerance.

    And I thought it was all just lactose intolerance.

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  • Kurt Laitner

    14 months ago

    
    
    

    but who holds this opinion, and who is angry
    
    as for wall street, you get what you reward, so you have to be careful what you reward - society wants reliable 15% return on investment, this doesn't happen organically so wall street cooks up some leveraged investments, society feels it is their right to own a home, but doesn't feel the need to have stable financials prior to doing so and we should feel sorry for these poor average fellows because the evil banks lent them money they couldn't afford, society feels we should bail out the banks rather than allow the banking system to fail, even funnier, society thinks that bailing out the banks will make the crisis go away - all a very fascinating study in self deception, and certainly related to ego in so many multi-faceted ways.

    but who holds this opinion, and who is angry<br /><br />as for wall street, you get what you reward, so you have to be careful what you reward - society wants reliable 15% return on investment, this doesn't happen organically so wall street cooks up some leveraged investments, society feels it is their right to own a home, but doesn't feel the need to have stable financials prior to doing so and we should feel sorry for these poor average fellows because the evil banks lent them money they couldn't afford, society feels we should bail out the banks rather than allow the banking system to fail, even funnier, society thinks that bailing out the banks will make the crisis go away - all a very fascinating study in self deception, and certainly related to ego in so many multi-faceted ways.

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    • pomlover

      14 months ago

      
      
      

      Obviously, "I" hold this opinion. You might not believe it, but I'm not angry. I'm actually amused :^)
      
      Interesting counterpoints. I don't agree with _all_ your "society" assertions. "Who" says that society wants a reliable 15% return? Why not 5%, 6%, 7%, 20%, 25%? "Who" says society feels it's their _right_ to own a home? How do you know they don't think of it as a privilege? "Who" says society feels they should bail out the banks? How do you know that society doesn't want to bail out main street? "Who" says that society thinks the crisis will go away? How do you know that society doesn't think that system collapse and depression will only be postponed with the rescue? Does who=the ubiquitous "they"?
      
      Even if you're position can be proven 100% right, it still, as you have pointed out, "certainly related to ego". I'd go one further: it _is_ sourced by ego. Egos for everyone, let me buy a round :^)

      Obviously, "I" hold this opinion. You might not believe it, but I'm not angry. I'm actually amused :^)<br /><br />Interesting counterpoints. I don't agree with _all_ your "society" assertions. "Who" says that society wants a reliable 15% return? Why not 5%, 6%, 7%, 20%, 25%? "Who" says society feels it's their _right_ to own a home? How do you know they don't think of it as a privilege? "Who" says society feels they should bail out the banks? How do you know that society doesn't want to bail out main street? "Who" says that society thinks the crisis will go away? How do you know that society doesn't think that system collapse and depression will only be postponed with the rescue? Does who=the ubiquitous "they"?<br /><br />Even if you're position can be proven 100% right, it still, as you have pointed out, "certainly related to ego". I'd go one further: it _is_ sourced by ego. Egos for everyone, let me buy a round :^)

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      • Kurt Laitner

        14 months ago

        
        
        

        fair 'nough -
        
        (p.s.) I was a financial advisor and credit analyst for 10 years, so I make some of these observations from a fairly large direct data set, but all such generalizations are suspect. as for assertions on crisis, recent media is the source, so take it with a grain of salt.
        
        let me rephrase as propositions rather than generalizations, then you may feel free to throw some empirical evidence at them if you wish.
        
        1) one cannot expect, say, 15% ROE year after year when long term rates of return from the asset class are 10% - it is unsustainable and demanding it will cause behavioral changes (enron, sub prime MBS's)
        1a) if everyone reduced their expectation of return to 5% we would solve a lot of problems, a LOT
        1b) I will go further and propose the corporate model is broken, and that shareholders who do not participate in value generation beyond their capital get diluted in real time as value is added on other dimensions, impersonal capital markets are a large part of the problem here.
        2) Privilege or right, one cannot blame the banks for lending to people who can't afford it without also blaming those people (I had to have this conversation once with an angry mother whose daughter had been given a credit card and abused it) -
        3) bankruptcy of any bank has a cascade effect in financial markets - the market left alone will adjust quickly and perhaps violently - attempting to manipulate markets with bailouts and regulation has unintended consequences
        4) there is no way to bail out mainstreet, pay now, or pay later
        4a) the best solution will maximize accountability (make those who are responsible pay for the mess (ie not the general taxpayer), including those who have profited from the lead up to the mess) - this unfortunately is near to impossible.
        5) bailing out the banks is rewarding those institutions for their behavior (those institutions include executives, staff, and shareholders, who may include mainstreet as you have characterized it) regardless of any other intent (stability, confidence etc)
        6) you get what you reward, so you have to be careful what you reward
        
        and now for some flagrantly opinionated items
        6) personal accountability and responsibility seems in short supply these days - recent media has villainized those 'wall street' people for victimizing the american people, I'm not sure I see any victims
        
        rereading, this statement is not far off - when read as a condemnation in general rather than simply of the financial sector.
        "Greed, caused by unconscious domination of the ego, caused the financial crisis that we're currently in. Me, me, me. Give me more money. I don't care what the cost is to others, just give me more and more money so I could buy more things that I don't need and so other people will be jealous of me. Get me more money, damn it!"

        fair 'nough - <br /><br />(p.s.) I was a financial advisor and credit analyst for 10 years, so I make some of these observations from a fairly large direct data set, but all such generalizations are suspect. as for assertions on crisis, recent media is the source, so take it with a grain of salt.<br /><br />let me rephrase as propositions rather than generalizations, then you may feel free to throw some empirical evidence at them if you wish.<br /><br />1) one cannot expect, say, 15% ROE year after year when long term rates of return from the asset class are 10% - it is unsustainable and demanding it will cause behavioral changes (enron, sub prime MBS's)<br />1a) if everyone reduced their expectation of return to 5% we would solve a lot of problems, a LOT<br />1b) I will go further and propose the corporate model is broken, and that shareholders who do not participate in value generation beyond their capital get diluted in real time as value is added on other dimensions, impersonal capital markets are a large part of the problem here.<br />2) Privilege or right, one cannot blame the banks for lending to people who can't afford it without also blaming those people (I had to have this conversation once with an angry mother whose daughter had been given a credit card and abused it) - <br />3) bankruptcy of any bank has a cascade effect in financial markets - the market left alone will adjust quickly and perhaps violently - attempting to manipulate markets with bailouts and regulation has unintended consequences<br />4) there is no way to bail out mainstreet, pay now, or pay later<br />4a) the best solution will maximize accountability (make those who are responsible pay for the mess (ie not the general taxpayer), including those who have profited from the lead up to the mess) - this unfortunately is near to impossible.<br />5) bailing out the banks is rewarding those institutions for their behavior (those institutions include executives, staff, and shareholders, who may include mainstreet as you have characterized it) regardless of any other intent (stability, confidence etc)<br />6) you get what you reward, so you have to be careful what you reward<br /><br />and now for some flagrantly opinionated items<br />6) personal accountability and responsibility seems in short supply these days - recent media has villainized those 'wall street' people for victimizing the american people, I'm not sure I see any victims<br /><br />rereading, this statement is not far off - when read as a condemnation in general rather than simply of the financial sector.<br />"Greed, caused by unconscious domination of the ego, caused the financial crisis that we're currently in. Me, me, me. Give me more money. I don't care what the cost is to others, just give me more and more money so I could buy more things that I don't need and so other people will be jealous of me. Get me more money, damn it!"

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        • . .•∞º˙

          14 months ago

          
          
          

          hey buddy, can ya spare a dime?

          hey buddy, can ya spare a dime?

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        • pomlover

          14 months ago

          
          
          

          Nicely done. I suppose I could dive more deeply into this dialog and try to frantically accumulate detailed evidence and facts that support my "belief" more credibly, but I'm not gonna go there because I'm not passionate about my stance, and I don't want this: http://www.twine.com/item/11bqt8py4-1j3/ego-battles to escalate.
          
          You win :^)
          
          "You can't change an opinion by using logic when that opinion wasn't arrived at by using logic." - Gerry Weinberg

          Nicely done. I suppose I could dive more deeply into this dialog and try to frantically accumulate detailed evidence and facts that support my "belief" more credibly, but I'm not gonna go there because I'm not passionate about my stance, and I don't want this: <a href="http://www.twine.com/item/11bqt8py4-1j3/ego-battles" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.twine.com/item/11bqt8py4-1j3/ego-battles</a> to escalate.<br /><br />You win :^)<br /><br />"You can't change an opinion by using logic when that opinion wasn't arrived at by using logic." - Gerry Weinberg

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          • webferret

            14 months ago

            
            
            

            "You can't change an opinion by using logic when that opinion wasn't arrived at by using logic." - Gerry Weinberg
            
            
            lol.

            "You can't change an opinion by using logic when that opinion wasn't arrived at by using logic." - Gerry Weinberg <br /><br /><br />lol.

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          • Kurt Laitner

            14 months ago

            
            
            

            in search of better ideas, personal conflict is generally inevitable, I wish people could separate their 'egos' from their 'ideas' - the ideas are just using their egos anyhow (selfish memes)

            in search of better ideas, personal conflict is generally inevitable, I wish people could separate their 'egos' from their 'ideas' - the ideas are just using their egos anyhow (selfish memes)

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            • pomlover

              14 months ago

              
              
              

              Agreed. However, at some point one of the parties may consciously choose to bow out (and leave the last word to the other party) because they're not so egotistically _attached_ to their stance that they want to spend lots of time debating in circles. I presented my stance and you presented a different one which I appreciate and learned from. Thanks.

              Agreed. However, at some point one of the parties may consciously choose to bow out (and leave the last word to the other party) because they're not so egotistically _attached_ to their stance that they want to spend lots of time debating in circles. I presented my stance and you presented a different one which I appreciate and learned from. Thanks.

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  • 14 months ago

    
    
    

    Re. Kurt's points on accountability, in no particular order........
    
    * The accounting standards and their interpretation have actually contributed to the current situation. Firstly, there was a move to international GAAP instead of country-specific accounting regulation.
    
    * Basel II accord amends which encouraged bankers to find ways to generate profits off-balance sheet that were not subject to credit risk limits:
    
    ===> more Special Purpose Vehicles (yes, possibly some like the ones found in Enron's collapse which is why the FBI is now investigating)
    
    * Professional firms other than the banks need also to be held accountable for their poor strategic advice.
    
    * Governments for monetary policy.
    
    * Ratings agencies for marking those investments as high-grade (AA to BB) when they were probably riskier than presented.
    
    * Mortgage brokers --- some failed their "duty of care" in ensuring that clients were solvent and could pay their mortgages.
    
    * Mortgage borrowers who lived beyond their means and have contributed to the transmittance of increased taxes to responsible homeowners.
    
    
    Wrt. returns, investors complain at the AGMs if it's less than X% dividend or their P/E ratio hasn't increased by Y%. In-house revenue generators in banks are under pressure to deliver returns of 25-30% (seriously) in the leverage finance area. It all equilibriums out to 12-15% per annum.
    
    Then everyone looks at what Warren Buffet is doing at Berkshire Hathaway and feels like a dunce when he clears the 20% barrier year-on-year and they want to beat not only the market returns but also the Buffet ones.
    
    Is it ego? Is it myopia? Is it simply people not being smart enough?
    
    What it definitely is is a need for more clear-headed action.

    Re. Kurt's points on accountability, in no particular order........<br /><br />* The accounting standards and their interpretation have actually contributed to the current situation. Firstly, there was a move to international GAAP instead of country-specific accounting regulation.<br /><br />* Basel II accord amends which encouraged bankers to find ways to generate profits off-balance sheet that were not subject to credit risk limits:<br /><br />===&gt; more Special Purpose Vehicles (yes, possibly some like the ones found in Enron's collapse which is why the FBI is now investigating)<br /><br />* Professional firms other than the banks need also to be held accountable for their poor strategic advice.<br /><br />* Governments for monetary policy.<br /><br />* Ratings agencies for marking those investments as high-grade (AA to BB) when they were probably riskier than presented.<br /><br />* Mortgage brokers --- some failed their "duty of care" in ensuring that clients were solvent and could pay their mortgages.<br /><br />* Mortgage borrowers who lived beyond their means and have contributed to the transmittance of increased taxes to responsible homeowners.<br /><br /><br />Wrt. returns, investors complain at the AGMs if it's less than X% dividend or their P/E ratio hasn't increased by Y%. In-house revenue generators in banks are under pressure to deliver returns of 25-30% (seriously) in the leverage finance area. It all equilibriums out to 12-15% per annum.<br /><br />Then everyone looks at what Warren Buffet is doing at Berkshire Hathaway and feels like a dunce when he clears the 20% barrier year-on-year and they want to beat not only the market returns but also the Buffet ones. <br /><br />Is it ego? Is it myopia? Is it simply people not being smart enough?<br /><br />What it definitely is is a need for more clear-headed action.

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    • pomlover

      14 months ago

      
      
      

      Welcome back Twain. It's great to have your opinions and beliefs added to the mix! We all form our beliefs/opinions on what we see and hear in the moment _mixed with_ what we've experienced in the past and how it made us feel.

      Welcome back Twain. It's great to have your opinions and beliefs added to the mix! We all form our beliefs/opinions on what we see and hear in the moment _mixed with_ what we've experienced in the past and how it made us feel.

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  • 14 months ago

    
    
    

    Thanks, pomlover. Hey where's Homer and Dr. No, :*)?
    
    To be sure, I feel absolutely sick in my stomach for the US taxpayer and also understand their anger.
    
    I would say that it's been easy to blame bankers en masse. However, people forget that for every 1 star rainmaker who makes US$ millions, there are 1,000 others in the bank who are on average incomes and even sub-average incomes like the cleaning staff. They are just as important, in my opinion.
    
    I'd actually like to see the media report more on the following:
    
    * suggestions on how the redundancies can find new jobs
    * organizations and support networks they can contact
    * initiatives to educate teenagers about financial responsibility.
    
    So......is the media also the ego source when they should be the information support source?

    Thanks, pomlover. Hey where's Homer and Dr. No, :*)?<br /><br />To be sure, I feel absolutely sick in my stomach for the US taxpayer and also understand their anger. <br /><br />I would say that it's been easy to blame bankers en masse. However, people forget that for every 1 star rainmaker who makes US$ millions, there are 1,000 others in the bank who are on average incomes and even sub-average incomes like the cleaning staff. They are just as important, in my opinion.<br /><br />I'd actually like to see the media report more on the following:<br /><br />* suggestions on how the redundancies can find new jobs<br />* organizations and support networks they can contact<br />* initiatives to educate teenagers about financial responsibility.<br /><br />So......is the media also the ego source when they should be the information support source?

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    • pomlover

      14 months ago

      
      
      

      Homer and Dr. Evil are temporarily stashed away until I feel the urge to change. I'm in drinkin' partyin' mode a la John Belushi for the time being - buuuurrrrp!
      
      There's enough fault to spread around to everyone, except of course for me and you and Kurt, etc. Damn! Me ego just hoodwinked me again :^)
      
      Ego is everywhere, including the media. No one human or group of humans (collective ego) is immune, except for the handful of enlightened beings on the planet who have dissolved the damn imposter that it is :^).

      Homer and Dr. Evil are temporarily stashed away until I feel the urge to change. I'm in drinkin' partyin' mode a la John Belushi for the time being - buuuurrrrp!<br /><br />There's enough fault to spread around to everyone, except of course for me and you and Kurt, etc. Damn! Me ego just hoodwinked me again :^)<br /><br />Ego is everywhere, including the media. No one human or group of humans (collective ego) is immune, except for the handful of enlightened beings on the planet who have dissolved the damn imposter that it is :^).

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      • . .•∞º˙

        14 months ago

        
        
        

        I put curtains on mine. and a nice shrub with a path. nih.

        I put curtains on mine. and a nice shrub with a path. nih.

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        • 14 months ago

          
          
          

          I have lipstick......and some pant suits........Oh wait.....Palin and the Billary did that one already.........

          I have lipstick......and some pant suits........Oh wait.....Palin and the Billary did that one already.........

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        • pomlover

          14 months ago

          
          
          

          Good 'un ;^)
          
          So you put curtains in front of the ego mask that is fused to our face for double coverage. No need to double up on being discovered by others or discovering yourself. The mask that is the ego hides the real you/me from external observers, and more sadly, it hides the real you/me from ourself. The first step to peeling off the mask is recognizing that it is there. The second step is wanting intensely to remove it. Some (very few) masks are dissolved instantly via epiphanies; others come off gradually after years of diligent and persistent prying; and yet others stay on forever because neither step 1 nor step 2 was followed. I'm a pryin' as fast as I can, but it taint workin' too well :^)

          Good 'un ;^)<br /><br />So you put curtains in front of the ego mask that is fused to our face for double coverage. No need to double up on being discovered by others or discovering yourself. The mask that is the ego hides the real you/me from external observers, and more sadly, it hides the real you/me from ourself. The first step to peeling off the mask is recognizing that it is there. The second step is wanting intensely to remove it. Some (very few) masks are dissolved instantly via epiphanies; others come off gradually after years of diligent and persistent prying; and yet others stay on forever because neither step 1 nor step 2 was followed. I'm a pryin' as fast as I can, but it taint workin' too well :^)

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  • 14 months ago

    
    
    

    I don't necessarily believe that the politicians rejected it for ego reasons and the media has also been unhelpful. The root may transpire to be that it is too complex for everyone to get their heads round and the timeframe too intense.
    
    Definitely, Paulson and Bernanke's institutions should have intervened a lot sooner; I would argue in Q4 2007 following that first set of substantial write downs. As for senior bank management, they have known since about Q2 2006 that trouble was brewing ahead when a number of their proprietary trading platforms (aka hedge funds) started making US$350+ million losses.
    
    To out-of-the-blue present a bailout plan and say, "This needs to be passed NOW-NOW!!! or it's the financial Apocalypse!" is not the sensible way to navigate out of a quagmire.
    
    The thing about the media is that they are, in many ways, backseat drivers.
    
    rpfiii has seen what follows, so there's no need to allocate time to re-read it.........
    
    Here's my own view on the current crisis: www.sqwaq.com/credit_crunch_2008.html
    
    
    *******************************
    
    One of the best roundtable discussions I've seen on this issue can be viewed here:
    
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7635388.stm
    
    The most-senior level bankers, who actually have technical views on what's happening, the implications and the realistic options available, express their views.
    
    The BBC site also has good forum where opinions by those who actually work in the financial sector provide more meaningful insights on the challenges facing governments, financial institutions, employees, taxpayers and homeowners alike than the off-target "analysis" by the media pundits.
    
    http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?forumID=5407&edition=1&ttl=20080927173635
    
    The media pundits' weakness is that they actually have and present insufficient information about the mechanisms of global finance (both in terms of classic Mundell-Fleming ISLM models, how the money markets work, how bank balance sheets are composited according to various GAAP accounting practices as well as the legislative processes on monetary and fiscal policy changes).
    
    They simplify where they shouldn't and so provide viewers with incomplete information which leads to inaccurate conclusions.
    
    One prime example is this call for the investment banks to issue new equity instead of the US$700 billion bailout.
    
    What the media have neglected to report and remind viewers of is that MOST of the major banks spent 2007 trying to restore their balance sheets precisely by issuing new capital and attracting increased shareholdings by the likes of the Singapore Investment Authority as well as various Middle Eastern investment authorities and Chinese banks.
    
    That equity issuance still did not mean that the toxic mortgage-related assets could be disposed of onto the market (no other party wanted to buy them).
    
    Therefore, this US$700 billion bailout is a measure of last resort, in my opinion. It is NOT ideal. There certainly need to be oversight on the purchase price of each batch of toxic assets, a ceiling on executive compensation, a revolving facility to draw-down the US$700 billion in appropriate value and time concentrations as well as in-built guarantees that the banks will have to repurchase those assets when they are more financially stable (and within a specified time frame or they risk a non-completion penalty, e.g. like a percentage of their profits)........
    
    However, all-in-all, there is no alternative to this bailout. The Republicans' suggestion of this insurance methodology makes no rationale or banking sense. The insurance wrappers will simply add more complexity to banks' balance sheets at a time when what's badly needed is clarity and transparency there.
    
    It's possible US$700 billion is not enough since previous analysts' estimates have the expected write downs of mortgage instruments higher than this figure.
    
    Whilst like most people I object in principle to bailing out failed business models and poor management decision-making, in practice there are few alternatives which would materially help sector-wide balance sheets and restore market confidence.

    I don't necessarily believe that the politicians rejected it for ego reasons and the media has also been unhelpful. The root may transpire to be that it is too complex for everyone to get their heads round and the timeframe too intense.<br /><br />Definitely, Paulson and Bernanke's institutions should have intervened a lot sooner; I would argue in Q4 2007 following that first set of substantial write downs. As for senior bank management, they have known since about Q2 2006 that trouble was brewing ahead when a number of their proprietary trading platforms (aka hedge funds) started making US$350+ million losses. <br /><br />To out-of-the-blue present a bailout plan and say, "This needs to be passed NOW-NOW!!! or it's the financial Apocalypse!" is not the sensible way to navigate out of a quagmire. <br /><br />The thing about the media is that they are, in many ways, backseat drivers. <br /><br />rpfiii has seen what follows, so there's no need to allocate time to re-read it.........<br /><br />Here's my own view on the current crisis: <a href="http://www.sqwaq.com/credit_crunch_2008.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.sqwaq.com/credit_crunch_2008.html</a><br /><br /><br />*******************************<br /><br />One of the best roundtable discussions I've seen on this issue can be viewed here:<br /><br /><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7635388.stm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7635388.stm</a><br /><br />The most-senior level bankers, who actually have technical views on what's happening, the implications and the realistic options available, express their views. <br /><br />The BBC site also has good forum where opinions by those who actually work in the financial sector provide more meaningful insights on the challenges facing governments, financial institutions, employees, taxpayers and homeowners alike than the off-target "analysis" by the media pundits.<br /><br /><a href="http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?forumID=5407&amp;edition=1&amp;ttl=20080927173635" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?forumID=5407&amp;edition=1&amp;ttl=20080927173635</a><br /><br />The media pundits' weakness is that they actually have and present insufficient information about the mechanisms of global finance (both in terms of classic Mundell-Fleming ISLM models, how the money markets work, how bank balance sheets are composited according to various GAAP accounting practices as well as the legislative processes on monetary and fiscal policy changes).<br /><br />They simplify where they shouldn't and so provide viewers with incomplete information which leads to inaccurate conclusions.<br /><br />One prime example is this call for the investment banks to issue new equity instead of the US$700 billion bailout. <br /><br />What the media have neglected to report and remind viewers of is that MOST of the major banks spent 2007 trying to restore their balance sheets precisely by issuing new capital and attracting increased shareholdings by the likes of the Singapore Investment Authority as well as various Middle Eastern investment authorities and Chinese banks. <br /><br />That equity issuance still did not mean that the toxic mortgage-related assets could be disposed of onto the market (no other party wanted to buy them). <br /><br />Therefore, this US$700 billion bailout is a measure of last resort, in my opinion. It is NOT ideal. There certainly need to be oversight on the purchase price of each batch of toxic assets, a ceiling on executive compensation, a revolving facility to draw-down the US$700 billion in appropriate value and time concentrations as well as in-built guarantees that the banks will have to repurchase those assets when they are more financially stable (and within a specified time frame or they risk a non-completion penalty, e.g. like a percentage of their profits)........<br /><br />However, all-in-all, there is no alternative to this bailout. The Republicans' suggestion of this insurance methodology makes no rationale or banking sense. The insurance wrappers will simply add more complexity to banks' balance sheets at a time when what's badly needed is clarity and transparency there. <br /><br />It's possible US$700 billion is not enough since previous analysts' estimates have the expected write downs of mortgage instruments higher than this figure.<br /><br />Whilst like most people I object in principle to bailing out failed business models and poor management decision-making, in practice there are few alternatives which would materially help sector-wide balance sheets and restore market confidence.

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  • frank smith

    14 months ago

    
    
    

    Speaking of ego, to me it's not all bad. some ego is the basis of self worth/self survival. greed is another thing entirely.
    
    There is a kind of greed that wants more than they have today. this is not the most dangerous (although it does tend to be insatiable and therefore a sign of mental illness).
    
    There is another greed/ego mindset that has to have more than others. I'm not just talking about competing with the Jones, though they are related. No, there are people who define richness by the number of people out there that they consider poor. If we all were "rich" (as is possible in a future that approaches the Singularity) then no one is "poor" and these people have no one to look down upon. It's a sickness that is based on the perceived domination of others. "We" are "better" because "they" are "worse" people. It has nothing to do with how much a person has, it is all about what another person DOESN'T have. These type of people have a vested (in their minds) interest in the failure/limitation of others.
    
    Grumble grumble grumble...

    Speaking of ego, to me it's not all bad. some ego is the basis of self worth/self survival. greed is another thing entirely.<br /><br />There is a kind of greed that wants more than they have today. this is not the most dangerous (although it does tend to be insatiable and therefore a sign of mental illness).<br /><br />There is another greed/ego mindset that has to have more than others. I'm not just talking about competing with the Jones, though they are related. No, there are people who define richness by the number of people out there that they consider poor. If we all were "rich" (as is possible in a future that approaches the Singularity) then no one is "poor" and these people have no one to look down upon. It's a sickness that is based on the perceived domination of others. "We" are "better" because "they" are "worse" people. It has nothing to do with how much a person has, it is all about what another person DOESN'T have. These type of people have a vested (in their minds) interest in the failure/limitation of others.<br /><br />Grumble grumble grumble...

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    • Kurt Laitner

      14 months ago

      
      
      

      zero sum txns are a problem, misdirected competitiveness as well, all stems from scarcity, which is questionable in some markets (we could start with food..)

      zero sum txns are a problem, misdirected competitiveness as well, all stems from scarcity, which is questionable in some markets (we could start with food..)

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      • frank smith

        14 months ago

        
        
        

        +++ more and more questionable. start with food by starting with energy. energy gets water and water gets food. I'm not saying food production is as simple as cheap/free clean water, but rather try it without.
        
        ala David Brin, competition and cooperation are two sides to the same coin, until the flips get misdirected.
        
        wise Kurt wise.

        +++ more and more questionable. start with food by starting with energy. energy gets water and water gets food. I'm not saying food production is as simple as cheap/free clean water, but rather try it without.<br /><br />ala David Brin, competition and cooperation are two sides to the same coin, until the flips get misdirected.<br /><br />wise Kurt wise.

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